torque converter slip actual vs desired

Once engaged, the lockup clutch simply drove the output shaft at engine speed (not turbine speed). (We have now DISCONTINUED our use of Google Analytics tracking on this website; see the "Online Tracking" section of the Privacy Policy for more information.) I cant imagine the hours of work which you must have put into understanding these various transmissions, to say nothing of writing up a description that a simpleton like me could (mostly) understand. Many aftermarket companies offer performance lockup torque converters that can provide a higher stall speed without sacrificing the advantages of the lockup converter for highway use. This very similar to what I experienced with my failure. by SirHandyMan Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:27 pm, Post The torque converter clutch is always slipping somewhere between 5% to 95% when engaged, which depends on vehicle speed and engine load.. We discussed the information to monitor on the scan tool, there is an actual slip, desired slip, and TCC status. When you have contaminated transmission fluid that has bits of this and that in it This is an indication that you have bigger problems inside the converter or transmission. Clutch, Transmission, Differential, Axle & Transfer Case, The following errors occurred with your submission, Lightning, Harley-Davidson F-150, Roush F-150 & Saleen F-150, Conventional (Bumper Pull) Towing; Travel Trailers & Pop-ups, Toy Hauler Towing; Fifth Wheel & Bumper Pull, Flatbed, Car, Boat, Utility, Horse & Misc. (author diagram). Really bad shuddering under acceleration, etc. There are several actions that could trigger this block including submitting a certain word or phrase, a SQL command or malformed data. JavaScript is disabled. Torque Converter Slip Measurement / Diagnosis | Ford Explorer - Ford Because of the lack of traction and limited tires, it's not critical that a street engine launch at peak-torque rpm. Well done and thank you; this must have been an enormous amount of work. The DG series transmissions were notionally three-speed automatics (although early iterations were designed to start in second gear) with a torque converter lockup clutch. The drive fan moves air across the blades of the driven fan (which is turned off). Anyway, I downloaded FORscan on my laptop and loaded several pids for the transmission. 1. and 2. When you submit a comment, you may have the option save your information for future comments, storing the info in these cookies. At idle and very low road speeds, slippage is desirable because it keeps the engine from stalling or lugging in gear. These cookies manage your cookie and privacy preferences. Have you ever gotten in your car, started it up, put it in gear only to feel it shudder? (WordPress and the WordPress logos are registered trademarks of the WordPress Foundation in the United States and other countries. How ever this did happen right after I did the six 0 to 60 mph relearn runs. & Tm. Big cars weighing over 3,300 pounds generally need a converter with more torque multiplication. The torque converter of the future will have a carefully tuned control strategy, which takes into account the torque demands of each vehicle. Failing Torque Converter Clutch with Slippage - Could be your TCC Solenoid, Re: Failing Torque Converter Clutch with Slippage - Could be your TCC Solenoid, https://www.ecoboostperformanceforum.co 733.0.html. Torque converter seals can get damaged for several reasons. (Google, Google Analytics, and other related marks and logos are trademarks of Google LLC. All other trademarks and/or service marks are the property of their respective owners. Akamai is a registered trademark or service mark of Akamai Technologies, Inc. in the United States (Reg. Plugging it back in all the way and resetting the PCM took care of that problem. (At present, this setting does NOT affect the payment or donation buttons that may appear on portions of the site's administrative dashboard, nor does hiding the box affect any cookies that may have already been set). If you use the buttons to make a payment or donation, the PayPal services will set additional cookies (not listed here) to manage your PayPal login and transaction data (and potentially also for various other purposes, e.g., user analytics and/or advertising). We may sometimes present an alternative version of the sidebar offering different options, which may set the a11y-desaturated, a11y-high-contrast, and/or a11y-larger-fontsize cookies if you change those settings. works great no real problems. The stator is called the middleman because it serves as the conduit that reverses transmission fluid and sends it back to a turbine impeller. We arent saying 10RPM of slip is bad, what we are saying is that seems to be the progression point of going out. It is the lack of fluid that causes overheating, slipping, or shuddering. Tire slip is likely causing your speed difference. Sure, there's all kind of talk about stall speed, slippage, and lockup features, but some gearheads secretly believe there's as much voodoo to a torque converter as there is science. Shifting to third gear was accomplished by engaging the torque converter lockup clutch. This is why lifting off the throttle in a car with a fluid coupling or torque converter can feel almost like shifting into neutral. With Torque Pro torque slip shows it at 0-6 rpm at 60 mph and when coming to a stop it jumps to 25-40 rpm then raises to 1400+. Dr. Tranny helped for a short time and then the car became entirely undriveable. Accessing the login page sets the wordpress_test_cookie, a session cookie that tests whether the user's browser (or other user agent) will allow the cookies needed to log in to the administrative dashboard; this cookie normally expires when the user closes their browser (or other user agent). However, the cookie may remain on your device for as long as the settings of your browser (or other user agent) permit. When coasting, the turbine overruns the impeller, which causes slippage, but relatively little braking effect. Once your torque converter starts failing, you need to be knowledgeable about what torque converter problems will disable your car? Adding stall speed to the torque converter increases the power available to accelerate the car more quickly. Obviously some sort of mechanism would have been required to determine what gear to select and when to actually shift, but starting with a Wilson box at least some of the problems would have been solved. copyright 2023 AAMCO transmissions inc. It stays between 0 and 5 RPM when locked. For more information about Google advertising, see the "Advertising" section of their Google Privacy & Terms site. But the most common torque converter problems are listed below. This will cause damage to both the transmission and the converter. (PayPal.com, PayPal, and all logos related to the PayPal services are either trademarks or registered trademarks of PayPal, Inc. or its licensors. Okay, so it sounds like you were able to identify a potential root cause. The confusion stems from the symptoms of a failing transmission, and a failing torque converter is very similar and linked. This is a very slick trick and can be worth up to 2.5 times engine torque! Think of it as two fans facing eachother inside an enclosure. These cookies expire in about 15 days if the user clicks "Remember Me" when logging in; if not, the cookies normally expire when the user closes their browser (or other user agent), or, failing that, within about two days. The logic of these schematics, which are not to scale and which have been greatly simplified for clarity, is that each color represents a set of components that are integral or otherwise connected so that they always rotate together; clutches, brake bands, planet pinions, and flywheels are shown in black or gray. In the event we receive any compensation and/or other valuable consideration for any other content presented on this website, the nature of that compensation or consideration will be disclosed as part of the applicable content and/or otherwise adjacent to it. The wp-donottrack_feed cookie, which controls a blog feed, was set by accessing the dashboard menu for the WP DoNotTrack plugin (which we do not currently use on this website); this cookie normally expires in about one year. Some iterations of the Studebaker Automatic Drive/Borg-Warner DG started in first gear, but early transmissions started in second unless the driver manually selected Low. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. The PYPF cookie normally expires in approximately four weeks, the 01A1 cookie in approximately one year. This is how the first fluid couplings were designed, but they were hideously inefficient because of high slippage. I would suggest starting with the transmission upper mount and also a transmission fluid drain and fill. You are using an out of date browser. A spring-loaded plunger valve controlled oil flow to the lockup clutchs hydraulic cylinder. The torque converter is made up of five parts: The stator is called the middleman. Post I have yet to read this monumental work in depth. You can email the site owner to let them know you were blocked. Once the clutch plate is fully engaged against the pressure plate, both must turn together at the same speed. These a11y cookies normally expire after about seven days, but are removed immediately if you restore the applicable settings to their default values. Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:22 am, You need to be a member in order to post a reply, Not a member? Another important part of the torque converter and stall-speed equation is converter diameter. This is a remarkably broad, convoluted, and idiosyncratic field and theres a LOT I dont know. In the Packard Ultramatic transmission, the input shaft drives the hub of the direct drive clutch and the input sun gear of the Ravigneaux gearset (all colored medium blue). But once they are damaged, you will experience fluid leaks. Sep 16, 2013 #11 4 Ultramatics lockup clutch was a hydraulically operated wet clutch located within the torque converter housing, between the engine flywheel and the converter turbine. With a manual transmission, you are allowed the freedom to pick the starting-line rpm you want to apply when you dump the clutch. AAMCO Centers are independently owned and operated. On some prewar bus and rail car transmissions with lockup torque converters, the lockup clutch was engaged manually, but automotive lockup clutches are designed to engage and disengage automatically. Gears Magazine - Nag 1/722.6 P0741 TCC Slip With the torque slip PID on the DashDAQ. The information below will outline the most common torque converter issues and their solutions. The lockup clutch control valve, not pictured, allows pressurized oil to enter the clutch cylinder through a hollow passage within the input shaft, pushing the pressure plate (colored red, like the torus cover and impeller it rotates with) into the engaged position. ), This cookie was set if you clicked the "Disable Google Analytics Tracking" link to prevent the Google Analytics service from tracking your use of the Ate Up With Motor website. The cookieconsent_status cookie recorded whether or not you consented to analytics tracking and told the website to hide the notification banner; this cookie normally expires after about one year. check trans fluid. When that connection is fully engaged, the fluid clutchs torus members are effectively locked together they must turn together at engine speed and transmit no torque. At some point Ford modified the wiring to include a thick rubber insulator on the wires that extended beyond the edge of the intake manifold to prevent the chaffing. Remember, a torque converter is a coupler between the engine and transmission. In Drive, the direct clutch is engaged and both bands are released, causing the input sun gear, the low sun gear (orange), the planet carrier and output shaft (light green) to turn at input shaft speed. The knock sensor wire harness connector was loose. It's all about creating an overall tuned package that complements the rest of your car. This viscous connection is transmission fluid. Some persist for only a few minutes, or until you close your browser (or other user agent); others may remain in your browser (or other user agent) as long as your individual settings permit. Google, Google Analytics, and other related marks and logos are trademarks of Google LLC.). You must be at least 18 to comment. This has been a quick jaunt through world of torque converters, but it should at least inspire some intelligent questions to ask your converter company of choice as to the best converter for your application. The rear planet carrier is attached to the main shaft, which is also splined to the lockup clutch and drives the rear oil pump and governor (medium green). Achieving a true 1:1 speed relationship between the turbine and the impeller is not possible with a non-lockup torque converter since it is still a fluid coupling. All site content Copyright 2007-var year=new Date(); year=year.getYear(); if (year<1900) year+=1900; document.write(year); FordFlex.net FordFlex.net is in no way affiliated with Ford Motor Company. The TCC solenoid regulates the fluid pressure to the clutch. Google, AdSense, Google AdSense, Google Analytics, and other related marks and logos are trademarks of Google LLC. I believe it is labeled as TQSLIP(rpm) under Ford Specific PID's. The end result is the torque converterisn't able to transferthat power completely and efficiently from the engine to the transmission. iThemes is one of the Liquid Web family of brands; iThemes and Liquid Web are trademarks of Liquid Web, LLC.). In the early Studebaker Automatic Drive (Borg-Warner DG) transmission, the flywheel drives the torque converter impeller, front pump, and lockup clutch pressure plate (red). Please register or login to enable Dark Mode. For one, the engine would stall every time the vehicle came to a halt with the lockup clutch engaged unless the driver shifted to neutral each time. If oil pressure to the cylinder was relieved, the pressure plate would no longer be held against the clutch plate, disengaging the clutch and allowing the torque converter to function normally. by SirHandyMan Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:52 pm, Post Unlike Ultramatic and many subsequent torque converter automatics, the converter of the DG series was completely inoperative in top gear, so obtaining any additional torque multiplication required a downshift to second gear. Wilson pre-selectors were pretty well established technology, although not common, by the late 30s. (These cookies are not usually set for administrative users, since comments they submit while logged in are associated with their user ID number and user profile information rather than a manually entered name and email address.). Come join the discussion about diesel performance, modifications, EGR deletes, troubleshooting, lift kits, tires, wheels, maintenance, and more! I havent studied the Wilson preselectors in any great detail, but if youre curious, the applicable U.S. patents are US1404675 and US1796904. Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:39 am, Post Its job is to smoothly convert engine torque into hydraulic pressure that your transmission uses to engage and shift gears. Impeller Pump The impeller pump receives the transmission fluid once it's delivered. Twice last week, when I came up to a stop light, the engine bogged down to 400rpm then recovered back to normal idle. This slowly turns the blades of the driven fan in the same direction. Torque converter slip question - Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums It was followed in fairly short order by the 1950 Studebaker Automatic Drive, which took a somewhat different approach to the same problem. Signs of a Failing Torque Converter [and How to Fix it!] To learn more about how Google may use information collected by the Google Analytics service, see their "How Google uses information from sites or apps that use our services" page, the "Information for Visitors of Sites and Apps Using Google Analytics" section of the Google Analytics "Safeguarding your data" help page, and the Google Privacy Policy. Theshuddering makes the car lagand is very noticeable. Submitting a comment signifies your acceptance of our Comment Policy please read it first! Click to reveal Such cookies and/or stored data items may be set by various domains (such as, though not necessarily limited to, youtube.com; youtube-nocookie.com; googlevideo.com; ytimg.com; google.com; accounts.google.com; www.googleadservices.com; and/or doubleclick.net, which is part of the DoubleClick advertising service, also owned by Google LLC). As long as this mechanical lockup remains fully engaged, there is no slip, which improves fuel economy (typically by around 4% at cruising speeds) and provides throttle response and engine braking comparable to a vehicle with a manual gearbox. :whs: I was seeing 200-300 on the 310 with the stock converter but still felt really strong! How To Log Transmission And Torque Converter Slip In HPtuners!!! Opening the throttle further could delay engagement to a maximum of 56 mph (90 km/h). (At this point, an updated, expanded edition wouldnt go amiss, given all the subsequent development in CVTs and automatics with five or more speeds.). Actual shows 640 rpm in drive with the brake on. 51.91.16.67 Diagnosing a potential Torque Converter problem with a Scan tool. One of the fundamental differences between a fluid clutch (a fluid coupling or torque converter) and a mechanical plate clutch is slippage. When I replaced my transmission and converter, I replaced two mounts and the two dog bones under the engine. Once governor pressure was sufficient to overcome the combined spring and throttle valve pressure, oil would be applied to the clutch cylinder, engaging the lockup clutch. Only lasts from .5 seconds to 2 seconds. check out the. To learn more about the specific cookies used and/or to fine-tune your available choices, click "Privacy Preferences" at the right. I have read and accepted the Privacy Policy Since taking all the of the steps outlined above, I can confirm that the transmission has been running properly and the clutch working as expected. Thanks for copying the information from my other post here. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Comments may be moderated. Unless you have tune that keeps the converter unlocked, the converter should've locked. Remember, you don't experience either symptom unless you have the wrong amount of fluid or the wrong fluid in the transmission. In first and second gears, the converter turbine drove the front annulus (ring gear). My SunCoast converter has a little slip. How exactly are you measuring how much the tc is slipping? Torque Converter slippage | PowerStrokeArmy (For each of these cookies, "xx" will be a cryptographic hash.) On early Ultramatic-equipped Packards, the lockup clutch would not engage until road speed reached at least 15 mph (24 km/h) even on a light throttle. The torque converter is made up of five parts: 1. The stator is called the middleman because it serves as the conduit that reverses transmission fluid and sends it back to a turbine impeller. 6l90 TCC apply ramp strategy. ECCC - HPTuners Ive been troubleshooting a low RPM with light acceleration shudder on my 2011 EcoBoost Flex. scheme, but it does contribute. I found the cause of the P0325 and P0330 error codes. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. This created the demand for a lockup converter employing an internal clutch inside the converter to directly connect the turbine with the input shaft of the transmission just like a manual-transmission clutch.

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